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Joined: Aug 17, 2002 Posts: 1 Location: Montevideo / Uruguay
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:07 pm Post subject:
HI!
I think I've posted my previous message to a different forum...
Since I received Animotions' message about this idea I've been very interested.
I like illustrating stories from other writers and I've been doing this for the last 5 years. I like writing too but my English is terrible so I prefere to pick someone else's already written stories.
The point is that the genre of stories I illustrate is GAY and I don't know if this is against this forum rules.
I publish my stories to my Sites and seldom I receive messages from my visitors congratulating me for my work. The fact is that I do this for pleasure but many times I wondered how could I turn this into a profitable work. It usually takes me from 6 months to one year to finish each story. It's a lot of time and I have to distract some time from my real work (I'm a Programmer, Webmaster and Systems Analyst, too) to do these illustrations.
I spend months looking for a story I like and when I found it I ask the writer for authorization to illustrate it. Nowadays I have 9 stories finished. 4 of them have already been published to my Site and 5 more are waiting for space in any free-hosting Server. Some of the first stories I think they are terrible (I was just starting ...) but I like to leave them on-line because that way anyone may compare taht there have been an evolution since the beginning till now.
I have developed an acceptable work in scenaries, illumination, actors, poses and expresions but I have no enough machine for hair and clothes (usually I get them from pics and paste them over my actors ;-P ).
If GAY stories are allowed to this forum, please, let me know and then I will submit the URL link to them. And, also, I'd like to be in your list to illustrate someone else's stories.
Thanks for your time and excuse me for my poor English.
I was one of the first to offer my services here, and I've had only one response (preparing a reply to you, Nim). Nobody else like my pictures?
IMP.
Ian, I think you might get more responses if you show some sample sequentials -- no for, NO ONE has done that. Pin-ups can be had by the basket load on this site, but sequentials are what would tell/sell a story. Just speaking for myself, I would want to see some samples like that before getting into discussions with the artist.
There's some of that on my site, and more soon. Thanks for taking the trouble to look at my gallery, though.
I have developed an acceptable work in scenaries, illumination, actors, poses and expresions but I have no enough machine for hair and clothes (usually I get them from pics and paste them over my actors ;-P ).
If GAY stories are allowed to this forum, please, let me know and then I will submit the URL link to them. And, also, I'd like to be in your list to illustrate someone else's stories.
Thanks for your time and excuse me for my poor English.
Using photos for clothing and hair could be a problem unless they are your own photos or you have permission to use them. Otherwise, it's a copyright violation.
As for gay themes, I see no problem with that as long as there's no explicit sex in them. If there is, you'd be able to sell them at Renderotica, but not here.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Online Comic Venue
L8rdaze wrote:
Hey all
That being said, for me to invest or purchase, I would need a serious "hook" to pluck down 2+ bucks on an online comic. Flash animations would be 1 type of hook in my mind.
Content...are we truly going to seeunique stuff...or rehashes of existing stories that just have "different" creator owned characters. (andwhat about the ever dreaded copyright infringement)
Has anyone thought about a subscription type of service? With the amount of site users (39k+) it would seem like this may be another option.
Again this is just my 2 cents!
L8r!
I think these comments make a lot of sense.
The many intelligent and valid comments made in this discussion overlook an extremely important point: why flood the web with more stuff when there is a ton a similar stuff (onlinecomics.net) for free?
If the format is limited to the standard comic book format, I think this will become another place where people essentially are posting demos in order to get into a "real" (read: well paying) venture of some kind. The whole purpose will then be defeated.
It's imperative we offer things no one else can or will. I traded emails with onlinecomics.net about the flash issue. They would like to do it, but can't figure out how or if there is a market. In the adult market, at least, there is a large and growing interest in flash mainly because of the whole Acacia nightmare. Flash is also easier to watermark, has built-in import protection (for 6+), and can add movement. I taught multimedia for a couple of years. Want to catch someone's attention on the web? Make it move--even slightly---and you've got them hooked.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Online Comic Venue
Quote:
sandmarine wrote:
"I've been working almost a year building a 3d city on Vue D' esprit, and i've been taking shots of different parts of the city to use as background for my scenes... could you imagine if I was drawing each part of the city on each and every panel??"
Actually, this is EXACTLY what has been keeping me from getting back to doing Perdition City Limits in a 3D format is the daunting task of setting up an entire city, realistically (and variously) textured, with enough fine detail that I can do streetside shots -- and not overload my system memory. I'm still not happy with Bryce4 as a render engine, so I don't know it well enough to use it (been thinking about Vue). Dystopia in P4 is great, but only goes so far.
A vast modular facade system with hi-res textures would be ideal, but there's not a lot of good stuff out there and I've had poor success building my own.
Quote:
and:
"we should market this as "the future" of it all, that's where the media attention could come from (hey, get someone in a TV show about technology to touch this subject.. like "Online 3D comics: the future of comics?"... get them to review some comics and probably mention that animotions is starting a base of people doing 3d comics... or send the topic to Wired magazine"
There is a difficulty in advertising in any direct-retailer situation, say (as mentioned) in comic shops or distributor magazines in that with online comics (which cut out the retailer as a middleman), it is simply not in their best interests to advertise us. Wizard Magazine might not be too bad; Wired is better (as well as tangential stuff like PC Gamer, Computer Arts, etc). However, every online venture thus far has pushed itself as "the future of comics" and has been proven somewhat unfounded in the short-term, so it's likely to be met with a "been there done that" response. The better option (other than directly buying ads in those magazines), is to make material available for reviews -- sometimes they'll go for it, sometimes they won't. At any of these stages, though, you'll want to already have a good body of work available in the store. Presently, we don't have that.
Quote:
Ratteler wrote:
"Of of the saddest byproducts of the modern day comic industry is the Pinup artist who thinks he can make book based on 22 Pinups..."
Some great points here, and I second all of them. There really is a storytelling craft involved.
Quote:
OrcaDesignStudios wrote:
"One possible solution would be to do a book of, say 32 pages, broken up into four, 8 page stories, each by different creators. Kind of an "AniMotions Presents" thing, like Dark Horse used to do."
Excellent idea. It's still a bit better to promote such an anthology once there's a body of work in place, but it also allows stories of shorter lengths (i.e. a challenge for concise storytelling) and in an edited situation, kind of a proving ground and training situation for newer creative folk.
Quote:
cinex wrote:
"why flood the web with more stuff when there is a ton a similar stuff (onlinecomics.net) for free?"
Bandwidth and other cost realities will eventually make this impossible for many places to provide. Those sites will have to make back that deficit through advertising at the very least, in order to cope with the expense. Something like what is being proposed here will take a considerable amount of time to build content for, and by the time that content is ready, I'm sure the financial reality will be more in tune with this.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Online Comic Venue
One other major thing to consider:
If Animotions starts marketing its own comics, publishers like DC, Marvel and Image are going to become very adverse to allowing images of their copyrighted characters in the galleries here.And they certainly won't stand for cameo appearances in any commercial comics (this will require a policy to be made).
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Online Comic Venue
cinex wrote:
The many intelligent and valid comments made in this discussion overlook an extremely important point: why flood the web with more stuff when there is a ton a similar stuff (onlinecomics.net) for free? ....
It's imperative we offer things no one else can or will. I traded emails with onlinecomics.net about the flash issue. They would like to do it, but can't figure out how or if there is a market.
Well, we're not going to "flood" the web are we? I believe some sort of quality control was mentioned pretty early on in this discussion; and that is something that onlinecomics.net could benefit from.
It's a site that's well worth mentioning however, because it has many excellent examples of how not to do a comic. I'm certain there are some good comics in there, I just generally run out of patience trying to find one.
I'm not entirely certain that using Flash is a gimmick that's needed. Can anyone remember Arqangel? Part 2 coming soon, yes?
Using Flash doesn't automatically make it good and it doesn't even make it different, because it's already been done.
Someone said we should make great writing our gimmick. We should add great art to that and leave it at that.
Christmas is coming ... any artist out there care to have a try at "Santa Claws: The Christmas Cereal Killer." ??
And no, I haven't misspelled "serial." _________________ If a thing is worth doing, it's worth overdoing.
Um, in case anyone thinks otherwise, you will NOT be able to use any licensed characters in comics for sale here unless you have the permission of the copyright holder.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Online Comic Venue
DTHUREGRIF wrote:
"Um, in case anyone thinks otherwise, you will NOT be able to use any licensed characters in comics for sale here unless you have the permission of the copyright holder."
I'm not just referring to the comics for sale, though. I can easily see Marvel etc. claiming that the use of their characters in the free gallery and freestuff are being used to promote online comics sales.
Just something to consider, hopefully proactively.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Online Comic Venue
Wow, interesting topic. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on things here if for no other reason than to see how the endeavor fares. My own attempt at a comic story (Spook Chasers) has stalled, partially due to hard drive/corrupted file related issues but mainly due to an impressively annoying lack of free time.
One thing I do feel compelled to point out however. If people are going to be charging for their online comics, please, please, please make some effort to have adequate standards when it comes to spelling and grammar. Whether this means collaborating with a writer/editor, or just being extra careful, I think it's very important.
Aside from being annoying, it just doesn't look very professional if a "serious" publication (as I would regard something that requires money to read) is riddled with spelling errors. The whole your/you're thing is a personal pet peeve of mine. I tend not to care QUITE as much if it's a free webcomic (or internet posting for that matter). But if it's something I'm gonna pay for, I think there should be some standards (even if those standards were self imposed).
Just my opinion. Honestly I don't know if other readers would feel the same or if they'd even care.
(I suspect however that the audience for a XXX rated title wouldn't give a rodent's hindquarters)
Well, from my own POV, spelling and grammar count a great deal. It trips me up too much to enjoy a story, no matter how good it is, if the spelling and grammar is bad.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Online Comic Venue
Smudger wrote:
cinex wrote:
The many intelligent and valid comments made in this discussion overlook an extremely important point: why flood the web with more stuff when there is a ton a similar stuff (onlinecomics.net) for free? ....
It's imperative we offer things no one else can or will. I traded emails with onlinecomics.net about the flash issue. They would like to do it, but can't figure out how or if there is a market.
Well, we're not going to "flood" the web are we? I believe some sort of quality control was mentioned pretty early on in this discussion; and that is something that onlinecomics.net could benefit from.
It's a site that's well worth mentioning however, because it has many excellent examples of how not to do a comic. I'm certain there are some good comics in there, I just generally run out of patience trying to find one.
I'm not entirely certain that using Flash is a gimmick that's needed. Can anyone remember Arqangel? Part 2 coming soon, yes?
Using Flash doesn't automatically make it good and it doesn't even make it different, because it's already been done.
Someone said we should make great writing our gimmick. We should add great art to that and leave it at that.
Christmas is coming ... any artist out there care to have a try at "Santa Claws: The Christmas Cereal Killer." ??
And no, I haven't misspelled "serial."
Of course, flash in and of itself won't make a comic great but neither will a hand-drawn 2D comic and there are far more bad ones on the web done using that style.
The point was, simply, don't rule out a format. If thinking outside the box yields this kind of reaction, I can tell you I (and other serious artists) will quickly lose interest in this venture.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Online Comic Venue
cinex wrote:
Of course, flash in and of itself won't make a comic great but neither will a hand-drawn 2D comic and there are far more bad ones on the web done using that style.
That endorses what I already said, so we're in agreement there.
cinex wrote:
The point was, simply, don't rule out a format. If thinking outside the box yields this kind of reaction, I can tell you I (and other serious artists) will quickly lose interest in this venture.
While it isn't my intention to belittle constructive ideas or generally annoy "serious" artists; the idea of using Flash, which has been done before, can hardly be considered "thinking outside the box." Neither does the veiled threat of taking your pencils away because I questioned that format, sound like the conviction required of a "serious" artist.
I've said it before and I'm quite happy to say it again, we do not need gimmicks, we need good stories and we need good art; and y'know what? We need them fast before we discuss this idea into oblivion. _________________ If a thing is worth doing, it's worth overdoing.
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