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I started a new message for this reply because I really feel the issues facing this board need to be addressed on their own.
THIS IS NOT A FLAME
THIS IS NOT A FLAME
THIS IS NOT A FLAME
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Rant #2: For whatever reason, this site has never enjoyed the kind of conversation traffic that the old 3dcc did. There are a handful of people who use the boards regularly, but little beyond that. I must admit that I don't contribute often because I have nothing to say. I'm hoping that when we shift to the new Web site, the BBS system will encourage more people to post. Until that time, I guess we all have to post when we can. Oh, and POST COMMENTS ON IMAGES!! I try to make at least a quick comment on things in my galleries, but it would be nice to see everyone else do the same.
BB. There are a couple of reasons I can see that people aren't posting here as often.
1 Stagnent Freebies.
Like it or not... the freebies at Animations are the life blood of this site, and it's community.
People like me who have been a semi-regular since the 3DCC days already have most of the stuff. Without regular new stuff, there isn't a lot of reason to check in.
The anti-M3/V3 bias is really hurting this site too. Most of the stuff is for figures I peronally rarely use anymore.
The latest Poser users come here, poke around laugh at renditions of Dork as thier favorite hero, and never come back. Or worse, they come here as noobs. Download a freebie, and by the time they figure out how to use it... they find out it was for Dork and not the Mike they expected it be.
I know it's a lot more difficult to make a unimesh version of a character than it is for the older figures. You need to make an injection pose, and it requires a lot of purchased extras that people may not have. But, as the original rant pointed out, stuff for even M2 and V2 is becoming limited because their popularity is waining.
We really need to sort the freebie libraries into what base figure they are for as well as the Comic Company. Like under Marvel and DC, have Dork/Mike1-2/Mike 3/Sixus Adam/and so on catagories.
Peronally I would like to see the Freebie library bulked up into a more comprehensive database of heroes. Have it include history on the character, statistics or in the case of a character with a lot of different looks, referance to where and when the look that is recreated came from. Then a little chart with what Freebies are available for that characater and what base mesh they are on. Maybe a render of that particular Freebie at more than a thumbnail size.
This is the kind of feature that would bring non-3D fans to this site since it would be a good referance for any one looking for comic characters.
It might also stir development of character versions that aren't currently available if we could clearly see what was available and for which character.
2. Images in messages.
Since there is no hosting of image file with in a message here, everytime I want to show something, I have to either FTP it, and then link, or ... what I've done a lot lately is post some where that they DO host images, and link to them. But sometimes is just a pain to go there, come back here and re-do everything.
It's a small detail, but it would be a nice addition that would make the boards here friendlier.
3. Market/Store
First... Is there any difference between the Animations store and R'otica's? It seems like it's all the same stuff. Are there any Animotions exclusives?
As some one planning on being a merchant, I would realy like to make my AoH package available here, but there is a bottom line to consider. From what I read Animotions is going to take 50% of the sales. Quite honestly, given the site traffic, and the total lack of uniqueness of the store content compared to R'otica... I'm better off selling my stuff else where if only because I'll get more sales. My other option is to sell my package here for MORE than I do elsewhere to compensate. Certainly that doesn't hurt me, but it does hurt this place. Why buy it here when I can get cheaper elsewhere. Very few people will go out of pocket more than they have to just to support a site like this.
I really didn't want to bring this up until AoH was ready to roll because I was planning on approaching the store managment privatly about getting a better brokering deal through Animotion. Maybe even one that would let me make it a bit cheaper to sell here than other sites which offer better split, but since the subject of what's up with site has come up maybe this can help some reform that will get this place moving again.
4. Untapped markets.
There are unique things that could be looked at that could bring people to this site. I suggested a while ago actually selling original E-Comics. Of course we couldn't sell Marvel and DC or Fan Fiction books, but there are some original ideas around here and unique heroes that are solely the property of their creators.
Animotion is in a rare place to become the Diamond Distributor's of the E-Comic world by brokering PDF's of Indie comic book creators.
It would require an investment in some programing to create a unique PDF password system that would key each sale to the purchaser. This would becoome a 2 step copyright security system.
When A purchaser creats an account they get a unique ID. That ID would be encoded into the Unique PDF they download. So no two PDF's of the same book would have the same password.
If the comic ends up on some P2P site or newsgroup, we can examine it to see who shared it, and go after them for losses.
I would also include a unique pricing structure. E-Comics start off at a base price, and every month "back issues" become more expensive by say $1. This rewards content creators for getting people hooked on thier series, keeps content buyers coming back to get the story at the "real" price, and still gives latecomers an option of catching up from the begining. Essentially, we create artificial collectability value.
If succesful we could also branch this out at some point into hard copy's of our comics available at comic shops. Animotions could be the next Image, Dark Horse or Top Cow this way.
I've thrown a lot of ideas out here, and I'm aware that this site probably runs at the grace of R'otica and or it's managament. There are very real concerns about bandwidth costs, gigabytes of storage, the cost of doing things like hirering programers or learning to write the code.
I think it's clear that I love this place. All my suggestions/ideas/complaints are SOLEY to improve all of our experience here. Maybe I am asking too much. Maybe I am suggesting the impossible. I doe'no.
In the end, I'm just an unemployed 3D guy, so it's not my decsion in any way shape or form.
I just want to see cool stuff and a community i like being a part of more than survive... but thrive.
Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 769 Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: BillyBob RANT2 issues.. Cont'd Was:This is a Rant, ..
I'm only going to reply to the first and last points here. Not because I don't think points two and three aren't worth addressing... it's more that I'm really really tired and I don't trust myself to be coherent for a full 4 responses
Anyway...
1. Stagnant freebies
I'd like to see more stuff popping up as well, but like you said, the current crop of DAZ figures create a problem. A lot of free stuff used to be generated by enthusiastic newcomers, but now, with morph injections, MAT poses and non-distributable CR2s, those newcomers who used to share files so readily don't know HOW to share files. Hell, I don't even know how to make a morph injector. I don't think there's any real anti-unimesh bias here, it's just that the unimesh figures make it so much more difficult to do what we do. Another factor in stagant free stuff is seeming lack of interest from the general public. Of my two most recent free items -- the P5 Two-Face and the raptor skins -- I've seen them used maybe half a dozen times, combined, out of a combined 1,600 downloads (from Renderosity at least -- neither AniMotions nor PoserPros has a download tracker). If no one is interested in using the stuff, why bother to make it available? And of course, there's the whole issue withy people claiming free items as their own work. We've all experienced this at some point, but I think Doug got the worst of it a couple years ago. Add to all that the fact that some of the biggest contributors to the 3dCC have either moved on to other things or lost their webspace when the 3dCC server tanked and you've got a problem, because only a very few have stepped up to fill the void. Of course, yet another problem is compatibility. I work exclusively in P5 now, so pretty much anything I create needs to be entirely re-created to make it useable for people running older versions. Between schooling, freelancing and going outside once in a while, I don't have time to make two versions of everything. Unfortunately, a huge number of Poser users are using older and, in my opinion, seriously inferior, versions of the software.
4. e-comics
I really, really, like this idea, but it WILL create HUGE problems. First off, there would have to be an editorial process to ensure that the writing is good, the plot makes sense, the dialogue is understandable, the art flows from panel to panel and that the art... well, that the art is worthy of having a pricetag on it. That's a huge job, especially because I think we both know that as soon as an e-comic division opened up, there would be tons of submissions, most of which would be so amateurish you wouldn't even read them for free. For every Time Extreme or Triad we'd get, there would be a dozen POS's sent in. The reigns would have to be a hell of a lot tighter on e-comics than on Poser products. Most Poser stores have disclaimers about not judging the artistic merits of products, but that would HAVE to be done in the case of e-comics. There's no point in starting an e-comic division if you're going to sell crap. No one will buy. Like I said, I'm into the idea -- in fact, if I had more free time, I'd be first in line to submit -- but it would require serious organisation and a serious commitment from a group of editors. _________________ Jim Harnock - ODS
www.OrcaDesignStudios.com
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:41 am Post subject: Re: BillyBob RANT2 issues.. Cont'd Was:This is a Rant, ..
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but like you said, the current crop of DAZ figures create a problem.
Well, in a way that is what AoH is going to be for. With any luck it will make creating unimesh super hero types a good deal simplier, and I'm already planning on several uploads that will make use of the package.
Maybe I could do a Tutorial on how to collect your unimesh characacters for safe and legal distribution when I get closer to finishing.
Is there anything that can be done by the adminstration to make it more appealing to contribute? (Probably not, but it doesn't hurt to ask right?)
Maybe a monthly Create a Charactor competition for a product or Gift Certificate. I know contests haven't gone to well around here... hell I've never entered one. But if there was a regular one for say $5 Gift Cert... who knows.
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Another factor in stagant free stuff is seeming lack of interest from the general public. Of my two most recent free items -- the P5 Two-Face and the raptor skins -- I've seen them used maybe half a dozen times, combined, out of a combined 1,600 downloads
This is another good point. It's discouraging to make something and have no one use it. But there is a kind of built in limitation to those items as well.
P5- I FINNALY upgraded, but still resist it. The only real reason I stuck with P5 after trying it was better library functions, which IMHO still pale compared to D|S. Plus 2 Face with out an equivelent Batman?...
It's for Mke1/2 only. (Place Dead Horse here)
You know... if you modded that texture to work on Freak, it would most likely work on ALL the unimesh figures. (Hint Nudge Hint.)
Also... the raptors are kind of a special use item.
I'm not trying to knock you in way. I'm just saying... even with freebies there needs to be some kind of awareness to market appeal.
I bet the search for Mike3 Spiderman stuff took a nice wak out this sites Bandwidth a few months ago, as well as all the other Spiderman stuff.
I've also seen a lot of nice stuff in the gallery that still isn't available in free stuff.
I know... I'm talking a lot of (Explitive Deleted) for some who's contributed no free stuff of his own. (Yet!) But like you say "schooling, freelancing and going outside once in a while". Now that I opened my pie hole I'll get to work on doing something about it myself.
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4. e-comics
I really, really, like this idea, but it WILL create HUGE problems. First off, there would have to be an editorial process to ensure that the writing is good, the plot makes sense, the dialogue is understandable, the art flows from panel to panel and that the art... well, that the art is worthy of having a pricetag on it.
See, I was thinking exactly the opposite on this.
I would make the only criteria that the book be certain number of pages. No more, No less. Also have an Ad page and banner requirement.
I would also make the price point uniform. You don't get to choose how much your book sells for. Every book sells for the same price. The best sellers get on hot lists, get reviewed, like any brokering deal. There are hundred of thousands of books at every B&N. Best sellers and New releases get pushed. Simple.
There will be a lot of one book wonders, but since this a just brokering deal, all the administration has to do is make sure that the product fuctions. In other words... the PDF file actually OPENS.
Story, Quality, Editorial content... that's the resposibility of the creator, and they have a motivated self interest in making it good. SALES! Sales and Return Customers if they are doing a series.
The free market will decide what's good and what's bad.
Maybe have 6 six month no sale elimination. clause. If NONE of your series sell for 6 month, it gets taken out of the store. Maybe put on a special order list to save server space.
I can tell you strickly speaking as a consumer, I don't want another Marvel or DC telling the artist what the limits are. I want to see what people will do when the only contraint is what the medium itself can deliver.
The other half is to keep the initial price low. Even if the story sucks ass and was drawn with an 8 pack of Crayola's on loose leaf, no one will REALLY complain if they only spent a buck or two on it. Unless the advertisment is compleatly deceptive. The manamegent really only needs to make sure the brokered artist isn't pulling a bait and switch with false advertisment, and they are in the clear.
Comic book shops and book stores HAVE to choose what they will let in because storing inventory means renting physical space. Unmoving inventory means paper rot, and waisted shelf space. Publishers have be choosey because there is a huge cost in printing a run of books, and simular concerns about storing and moving them.
All we're paying for is server space and bandwidth. We're essetially storing one book, and selling it however many times we can on demand. With the 6 month restriction on any title that doesn't move, we don't even have to maintain server space for stuff that doesn't sell. With the monthly price increase we actually make more on selling older stuff than new stuff. B&N would KILL for that scenario.
I was talking about this idea with a firend of mine, who was worried that people would just print it out.
1st, we make the licence for personal use only.
2nd, we encode a simple code on every page that links back to who it was sold to, but we need a programer to figure out HOW to do that.
3rd, cost of end user printing is prohibitive itself. a 22 page book on the average injet printer would end up costing anywhere from $16 - $60 Dollars for a single copy. Even with my $800 color laser printer my cost per page is still around $.20 a page without counting paper stock. That's still $4.40 a book and my cost per page is the best of heard of.
Rip off potential is really low.
By the time it's worth figuring out how to hack out our secuity, if we do it right, the business will already be succesful enough to write off the losses. If it's not... who's going to waist their time to steal a $2 comic from an obscure online publisher/broker.
Another side benefit....
Yugio, Poke'mon, limeted edition toys, classic comics..... what do all these things have in common? COLLECTABILITY!
By raising the price every month, we make the books worth collecting. Weather it makes sence of not... people like to collect things. It's FUN.
One of the things I noticed about the comic market today, is that when the collectibility stopped being important, the whole industry practically died. That part of the industry actually moved over to the Toy market.
Even DAZ plays on this. Tell me you don't feel a little twitch when you miss an introductory sale on something you wanted at DAZ.
Our biggest problem would be some one imitating us and offering a better broker deal, which again implies a level of success.
Oh... all our artist would have to be exclusive to us. You couldn't sell the same book at the other publisher.
This is really an amalgam of several already succesful business models with as many middle men cut out as possible.
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:11 am Post subject: Re: BillyBob RANT2 issues.. Cont'd Was:This is a Rant, ..
Ratteler,
Concerning E-Comics, your voice has been heard. Care to join us?
http://www.animotions.com/postt1823.html _________________ I am a romantic, a seeker of beauty.
Even from souls corners most despairing,
Beauty none the less.
-Sunheart-
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But if there was a regular one for say $5 Gift Cert... who knows.
