Question about the Jedi in ROTS

OrcaDesignStudios · Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 8:35 am Post subject: Question about the Jedi in ROTS

If you haven't seen the movie yet, stop reading.
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Okay, for those of you who have seen the movie, there's something that struck me as really odd and I was wondering what you thought of it.

When all the Jedi were being killed, why didn't any of them vanish? In Episodes IV through VI, when a Jedi died, his body disappeared, like the ANH when Obi-Wan is killed by Vader and in ROTJ when Yoda dies of old age. But any Jedi who dies in Episodes I through III doesn't vanish -- Qui-Gon in Episode I and any of the Jedi who are killed in Episodes II and III just lay there dead. Has this been explained at all that anyone knows of? I know right after Episode I came out there were rumours that the reason Qui-Gon didn't disappear was that he was secretly a Sith Lord (Vader didn't disappear at death either), but that obviously wasn't the case.
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RubberMatt · Forum Member Joined: Sep 10, 2002 Posts: 11 Location: UK

Right at the end of ROTS, aboard the blockade runner, just after Bail Organa has volunteered to take in Leia as his own daughter & Obi Wan says he'll take Luke to Tatooine Yoda tells Obi Wan he has further training for him while he hides on the desert planet
He says that Qui Gon has discovered the secret of immortality and has returned from the netherworld of the Force and promises to teach Obi Wan how to commune with his former master
By inference Qui Gon is the first to ever master this ability, he passes the knowledge on to the last two known surviving Jedi, at the time of their deaths they use this knowledge to transcend the flesh
Explains a few things like right after cutting down Ben Kenobi, Vader starts poking around the fallen robes, aparentely perplexed by the lack of a body (after all he's slaughtered his fair share of Jedi) ; Yoda's speech to Luke - "luminous beings are we, not this crude flesh"

Mizrael · Forum Member Joined: Jan 18, 2004 Posts: 258

Just as not every Sith Lord knows how to raise people from the dead or create life from Miticlorians, not every Jedi has the knowledge needed to transcend death the way Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon and Yoda have.

Joseph_OBrien

If you listen to Lucas' commentary on the AOTC DVD, he makes some nebulous reference to Anakin connecting to the afterlife when his mother dies and he attacks the sandpeople -- that's why we suddenly (and otherwise inexplicably) hear Qui-Gon's voice screaming "Anakin! Don't!" in that moment. Apparently this enables Qui-Gon to return and thus enable the surviving Jedi to transcend death post ROTS.

It's a shame all of this is so far in the background of the films as to be entirely irrelevant -- it's certainly a lot more interesting than anything actually happening on screen.

GhostofMacbeth · Forum Member Joined: Sep 21, 2001 Posts: 615

I always thought it was because they "gave" themselves more than anything else. Not that it was a selfless act but more just the fact that they sort of paused, thought and willed it. Ben thought about the greater purpose and went over willingly, Yoda was dying but went over willingly again. The others were supprised, not at peace, etc.

That was my take on it.

itisitex · Forum Member Joined: Sep 01, 2002 Posts: 177 Location: Tx

and we never really know if vader did since he was more machine than that could have just been the robot parts luke burnt. after all we did see Anakin with yoda and Obi-Wan.
I personaly felt lucas should ave done 7-9 instead of the first three that way the advanced tech could be better explained.

Hasdrubal · Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:34 am Post subject:

There should be some abilities the more seasoned masters of the light side should have that the less accomplished, and dark siders should not have.

It may be a blessing for Anakin not to face the spirits of his victims in the afterlife. I would think the younglings would gang up on him for retribution on the other side.

After viewing the end of Episode 6 again, I'm not sure Anakin deserved redemption in the after life for the murder of the younglings. If there is ever an Episode 7, he should be presented as a tormented spirit, instead of peaceful and content.

Vadlor · Forum Member Joined: May 09, 2003 Posts: 328

This I got from a spoiler full Star Wars fan site board. It's part a spoiler and part an excerpt from the novelization (which I'm buying shortly, for they are always more explicative than the movies).

"My failure, this was. Failed the Jedi, I did." Yoda, Revenge of the Sith.

In a glass observation dome on a medical station in the Polis Massa Belt, Yoda speaks to The Force as he has done for a long time. The Force answers him with the voice of Qui-Gon Jinn.

Qui-Gon Jinn tells Yoda not to blame himself for what happened but Yoda insists that he had been too old, too rigid, he had not noticed the changes in the galaxy...

Yoda had not let The Order change with it, he never learnt the full depth of The Force. Qui-Gon defends the old Master. He also suggests that Yoda will have a lot of time to learn the ways of the Force and - with his help - he will be able to join with The Force and yet retain his consciousness and in time, maybe even physical form.

However, this sounds to Yoda like the idea of eternal life. Qui-Gon agrees and reminds him that eternal life is exactly what the Sith are looking for, but they'll never find it...

Qui-Gon states: "...by the release of self, not the exaltation of self. It comes through compassion, not greed. Love is the answer to the darkness."

Yoda admits he underestimated Qui-Gon's potential as a Jedi Master.

So Yoda decides to learn from Qui-Gon. Bowing, he declares,

"Qui-Gon, your apprentice, I gratefully become."

This explains (to me at least) why Anakin becomes a ghost at the end of Return of the Jedi (be it the older Anakin in the original verison or Hayden Christenssen in the DVD version). Here's what I think: He saves Luke, saving HIS youngling (

) redeeming himself in the eye of the Force (if there is such thing). Based in this assumption, I think the correct "image" (fo r the lack of a better word) for his ghost is the older Anakin, for is in this moment that he "releases himself" and becomes one with the Force. The inclusion of the younger Anakin in the DVD I think goes by the assumptino of what Obi-Wan tells Luke, that when Anakin turned to the Dark Side, "he ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader." The one who killed the Emperor wasn't really Darth Vader, but Anakin reborn.

(wow, sound like I know something

).

All of this is obviously, IMHO. I'm open to other views.
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Vadlor · Forum Member Joined: May 09, 2003 Posts: 328