Superheroing and Wrestling. BOTH FIXED?

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

I was sitting around doing to mental masterbation about what the world would be like if Super Heroes were real. (I'm a big geek, and this is how I relax.)

I was trying to find someplace where people put on silly costumes like Super Heroes do.

Lets face it. The last time I had to save the world, I was wearing sensible black jeans. How bout you?

The only place in OUR world where people put on silly costumes and "battle" is Professional Wrestling.

Some how all the masks, and over the top conduct, preachy speeches and other stuff that make the comic world seperate from ours is all Ok in the Arena of Wrestling.

There's no doubt that in the early days wrestlers must have influced the costume design and identity of all our super heroes.

But if their costumes are the metaphore for superhero costumes... what about the fact that wrestiling is fixed?

What if Super Hero battles are fixed as well?

OrcaDesignStudios

I smell egg nogg on your breath, man

In the same kind of odd mental meandering style... one thing I kept coming back to when studying ancient Greece this past term and the Iliad and the Odyssey in particular was that Homer was the Stan Lee of his world. He wrote about superheroes fighting monsters, he just didn't have a Jack Kirby to draw them.
_________________
Jim Harnock - ODS
www.OrcaDesignStudios.com

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

:LMAO: Nope, can't blame eggnog on this one. This is just my regular brain

It really is an interesting thought though.

We've been raised with the belife that super heroes are people with powers who save us, and super villians are people with powers who put us in danger.

But borrowing from our reality where we start wars over imaginary WMD's, what if instead of hiding the existance of Super Heroes, we made them join leauges and federations to battle.

What if "Backstage" Superman was the Jerk, and Lex was a really nice guy. But they had to do these public "shows" and stay in Character.

Would there be an underground of people with powers who just wanted to stay out of the spotlight along with people who had stupid powers but wanted the glory?

It would explain away all the lawsuits from hero battles.

Just seems like a nice twist on the whole Superhero concept.

Sturkwurk

Have you seen the "Incredibles" yet?

how about "Unbreakable"?

both hit heavily on these themes.

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

Loved em' both. The Incredibles was close, but it still had that cartoon flavor to it.

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

Does any one wear a cape in real life?

Was gunna start a new topic, but realized that this fit here as well.

The Increadibles made fun of it. Hell, we all have. But really, when is the last time you saw someone in a cape that wasn't in costume?

I think my mother has a cape/shawl thingy. Other than that... what is the point? You wouldn't think some in this day and age wearing a cape was "cool".

Even the "fuctional" capes I found look nothing like the "hero" cape.

http://www.marlowwhite.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?preadd=action&key=09-900

This make a lot more sense for todays well dressed hero.

http://www.overland.com/scripts/ecatalogisapi.dll/Item?Item=104650&Template=9990000001001089&Group=284

finister · Forum Member Joined: Oct 21, 2002 Posts: 95

It is interesting...where did the superhero cape get its roots?

I think so-called 'pro wrestling' is closer to storytelling like comics than actual sports where the outcome is usually up in the air. I also think that there's comfort in knowing that eventually the good guy/half dressed woman, will win in the end.

If wrestling wasn't scripted then Big Show would kick every little guys ass day in and out and it would be boring.

I liked Andre the Giant in "Princess Bride". I think his character turned the 'pro wrestling' mythos inside out...his character played stupid because it was a giant's place, but you get the sense he was the smartest of the three scoundrels.

When I was a kid I knew Dick the Bruiser would get doublecrossed and beat up by a gang of guys early in the match and then, like the Hulk, he'd get so mad that he'd hit himself in the head and go into a rage that made his attackers back away in fear and then he'd beat the living crap out of them...every match like clockwork. And everytime I watched entranced as Dick the Bruiser re-enacted this same routine over and over and I loved it every time.

The real examination would be to find out why we need to read and watch the same scenario over and over and over and why we can't get enough of it.

Did they get the cape idea from Zorro?

Where did the superhero cape originate from? That's a great observation Ratteler.

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

I'm guessing the historical basis for it are GrecoRoman hero's, since at that time capes were actually worn, and wrestling again where they basically lifted the costume of the Roman and Greek era galiators as part of the show.

finister · Forum Member Joined: Oct 21, 2002 Posts: 95

Was Superman the first superhero in the 20th Century to use a cape. I wonder why the early comic creators decided to put a cape on comic heroes.

I wonder if it was something to do with GrecoRoman influence directly or it was borrowed from some late 19th Century convention for heroes.

The secret identity is also a curious device that pops up mainly in superhero comics.

The tights might be associated with 19th Century boxers who wore those pajama type body suits.

This is interesting, I'll have to research it.

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

Superman probably is the first superhero of the modern age. At the same time pulp heroes like the Lone Ranger were coming out.

I still have found a reason Jerry and Joel decided he should wear a cape in the first place.

History of Supes Costume.

Another golden age history look at supes costume.

Another interesting take on the Emblam.

finister · Forum Member Joined: Oct 21, 2002 Posts: 95

Cool links. Thanks

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

I think you're on to something with the boxing idea's.

While I haven't found any use of capes per se, it does become clear that a lot of the Boxing and Wrestiling Lore of the day inspired Seigel and Shuster.

John L Sulivan. was one of the last "Bare Knuckle" fighters from the 19th Century. He lost his title in 1892. One look at this picture shows how easy it would have been to envision him as Captain Marvel (Shazam). Right down to the sash.

Another image of Sullivan.

The man he lost to was John Corbett.

Looking at the face on this print, it's hard to belive one Superman's creators didn't have this clipping in his scrapbook. I mean... It's not a good representation of Either Sulivan or Corbett, but it sure as hell looks like Superman. No?

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

Bio on Corbett

Another Corbett pic.

And one more

He's even got a Stamp somewhere.

You can see that these guys had feature that ended up on the faces of Superheroes.

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

Given the lack of internet... and scarily enough a world population 1/2 of what it is today,

It's possible that Seigel and Shuster could have heard of these guys. News traveled much slower and people had longer attention spans.

But if they were going to be influenced by a boxer to make the "Man of Steel", there would be one person to fill the roll.

JACK DEMPSEY

Here's another image of Dempsey with shorts over tight leggings, and check out the boots one his sparring partner.

I've always wondered WHY Supes would wear his red underwear outside his pants. Here we see Dempsey sporting the same look that would define superheroes for decades.

Jerry and Joel would have been 12 years old when Dempsey lost the heavyweight title in 1926.

Again we see that in his hey day he had a look that defined many early Supers.

But here is the one that may clinch it. Could this be the photo that would put a cape on Superman almost a decade later?

BeyondComics · Forum Newbie Joined: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 2

SUPERMAN's *COSTUME ORIGIN* FOUND!!!!

-----------------------------------------------------
OK,
I have finally found out why the creators of Superman chose the colors they did and gave Superman a Cape! READ ON:

After much reading, I found a book that quoted the info:

Why they chose the colors they did for Superman:
They picked the Colors because they wanted Superman to appear as bright as possible and stand out as much as he could and at the time, those were the primary colors of newspaper print, so superman's colors were based on which ink would print more solid without dotting back in 1938.

The CAPE & WHY it was needed:
They needed a way to give Superman a stronger sense of motion because they had never shown a human moving the way he does and at the speeds he does, so they figured if they drew a cape, it would lend more motion to the character when printed on the newspaper page.

Ta-Da!

Now to Check out some all NEW HEROES called Civilian Justice and Ravedactyl , you Have to see: www.BeyondComics.TV

http://www.beyondcomics.tv

(Found by Graig Weich, from the book: DC COMICS by Les Daniels)

Enjoy!!!