Colour or black-and-white?

palmers · Forum Member Joined: Jun 07, 2002 Posts: 379

I didn't appreciate black-and-white comics until I started getting the Titan reprints of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing and discovered how beautiful Steve Bissette's artwork was without garish and mushy early-'80s colour. A similar thing occurred with Neal Adams's Batman. Now, I read nearly all the Essentials and Showcase titles as they appear, and appreciate line weight, tone and balance far better without colour. Some artists, like Gene Colan, work miracles with a few rough splashes of black ink. I'm now working in black-and-white almost as much as in colour, and enjoying the results. It's also a lot cheaper to print.
Do others here feel the same? Does absence of colour make you put a comic back on the shelf? Would you read, say, Mike Mignola if those broad chunks of colour were removed?

IMP.
_________________
RIVER: skin on the outside. First chapter FREE from www.ianmpalmer.com

GhostofMacbeth · Forum Member Joined: Sep 21, 2001 Posts: 615

It really depends. Sometimes it works beautifully, others it really leaves me wondering. Part of it is story, part of it is style. Superhero stuff seems to work better with color, action and emotion can be stirred with a bright blast of blue. More slowly paced things can work without color. But then again, Batman Black and White is wonderful. It also utilized people that know the craft a bit better and don't need to hide in the colors. A lot of black and white stuff is also a bit too alternative for me so my interest doesn't stay, not because of color but because of style.

palmers · Forum Member Joined: Jun 07, 2002 Posts: 379

You're right about craft. Someone like Gil Kane, when he knows he's working for black-and-white, can be amazing. The composition and light-and-shade in Blackmask and Star Hawks are dazzling.

IMP.
_________________
RIVER: skin on the outside. First chapter FREE from www.ianmpalmer.com

samcclung65 · Forum Member Joined: Sep 22, 2001 Posts: 31

Color sells better. A color book may not be better artistically speaking, but most people will be more likely to buy it because it is color.

I remember trying to get my mom to buy me a copy of the Rampaging Hulk magazine back when it was being published (the Hulk vs Sub-Mariner issue). She said “I’m not buying that, it’s not even in color.”

Scott

palmers · Forum Member Joined: Jun 07, 2002 Posts: 379

Yeah, but does colour sell as much better as it costs extra to print?

I've been looking at manga: small, no colour, fairly cheap, sells shitloads. I'm thinking about it.

IMP.
_________________
RIVER: skin on the outside. First chapter FREE from www.ianmpalmer.com

GhostofMacbeth · Forum Member Joined: Sep 21, 2001 Posts: 615

I know that I have serious slowdowns with black and white comics and my wallet. I tend to be more forgiving with color but I look at black and white and I am much more likely to examine the line and decide it crud than the sam thing in color. It is also, normally, something that isn't what I like as much. Sin City I like so it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Most black and white things are alternative press, badly drawn, social comentary or just plain dorky. I know I am jsut lumping a pile stuff together but that is partly true. It is also one thing that skews the market research on the two (color or BW) because they are wildly different books most times.

lectatege · Forum Member Joined: Mar 14, 2006 Posts: 203

Its an interesting question - for me, I think, by analogy with photography, black and white can be a lot more forgiving, and in some ways is the easier option.
However often it can look cheap on account of the fact that it is - well - cheap.

I think that both forms have equal standing when used properly.
If an image has been constructed on the basis that it will be reproduced in greyscale then that is the way it should be (don't even talk to me about colourization), however for some projects technicolour is the only way forward.

I work in both full colour and in greyscale as appropriate, and enjoy both for what they can offer.
_________________
A broken stereotype is a beautiful thing

electranaut · Forum Member Joined: Jan 03, 2004 Posts: 91

It's am interesting question. As B+W is cheaper then a lot of the smaller houses do it as a question of economy so there's naturally a lot more off-beat titles in B+W.

I wouldn't personally be put off by a title being B+W if I liked the idea of the story in general. I mean, I've stopped buying glossy computer mags because they're now something like £5 or £6 an issue, and this is solely because they're low circulation but printed on delightful silky colour paper with proper spine bindings and all that. And to be honest, a lot of that is wasted by huge swathes of empty white paper. I'd much rather pay £2 for a stapled mag with the pages filled and newsprint between the covers.

Truth be known, I stopped buying comics because I couldn't afford them, simple as that. I like colour as much as the next man but now the comics industry is getting zero bucks from me through cost considerations. If there was a decent B+W comic out there on the newsstands that cost £2 or so I'd buy it. The problem, as I see it, is that there isn't even a choice to do so.

lectatege · Forum Member Joined: Mar 14, 2006 Posts: 203

It's difficult - when I work in colour if I'm using a sludgy palette it works just as well on cheap paper - however, if its full on saturation, it looks crap on anything but high quality which inevitably costs more.

Personally as a consumer I adore colour and would be prepared to go that extra mile cost wise for something that was really cracking, Having said which I would privilege something b&w if it was excellent work - Aubrey Beardsley and Edward Gorey spring to mind immediately - over mediocre work in full colour.

As you say it would be nice to have the choice.
_________________
A broken stereotype is a beautiful thing

palmers · Forum Member Joined: Jun 07, 2002 Posts: 379

I think the cost saving in producing a black-and-white comic should be compensated for by extra thought given to style. Publishers ought to recognise that a black-and-white comic, while cheaper to produce, is less attractive to buyers, and should seek ways to make the lack of colour an asset. Had the work I mentioned at the start of the thread, by Bissette and Adams and Colan, first appeared in black and white it would have blown me away.

I've worked in black and white when I could have used colour, just for stylistic reasons. Because I impose black lines and shadows over colour a lot of the time, there's often a stage at which the work is visible only in monochrome, and sometimes I have to force myself to put the colour back in.

IMP.
_________________
RIVER: skin on the outside. First chapter FREE from www.ianmpalmer.com

palmers · Forum Member Joined: Jun 07, 2002 Posts: 379

I've noticed that Doug Sturk has been working in mono a bit since Poser 6.

IMP.
_________________
RIVER: skin on the outside. First chapter FREE from www.ianmpalmer.com

palmers · Forum Member Joined: Jun 07, 2002 Posts: 379

And - perhaps I should finish thinking before I start typing - certain filmic material, particularly recent styles in SF and action, are largely black anyway. Recently I've been watching Underworld, Blade, Battlestar Galactica, Alien, Event Horizon, Hellboy, Batman... Not a lot of colour going on.

IMP.
_________________
RIVER: skin on the outside. First chapter FREE from www.ianmpalmer.com

GhostofMacbeth · Forum Member Joined: Sep 21, 2001 Posts: 615

I think even a limited use of one color can work. It is cheaper and can really push things over the edge and make things read as well. But I think Black and Whte always gets the indie vibe from people, in general, and then they have the indie art styles and it doesn't hit as wide of a market. Some artists really excel at the black and white and they are someone that might be fun to do another Batman Black and White or something similar. Really show the purity of the ink.

electranaut · Forum Member Joined: Jan 03, 2004 Posts: 91

I also think it depends on the demographic you're aiming for. If you are doing an obviously off-beat, indie style comic then it'd probably be much more acceptable in b+w. If you're trying to sell to young kids then you could have a simple colour process and perhaps use a lower grade paper to keep it within pocket-money levels. If it's gen x'ers who are likely to care a lot more and have more disposable income, they'd probably appreciate a product that was better coloured and better presented at a more premium price.

lectatege · Forum Member Joined: Mar 14, 2006 Posts: 203

I think a heavy black line with a limited palette of flat colour can be an artform in its own right distinct from either black and white or full colour - look at the work of the Beggarstaff brothers for example.
In film/tv terms I love the use of a restricted palette unless it gets too mannered - I must say by the end of Alien and Underworld (and The Matrix) I felt like shouting "Try a fuschia scarf for a change - would it kill you to wear turquoise?' . I know its all metaphorical - 'its a grim grey world' - but that does become too much of a cliche after a while.
Sin City always exempted of course 'cos it was so good.

What's Hellboy like?
_________________
A broken stereotype is a beautiful thing