DAZ Quality Slipping on Victoria 4 Body Suit

Hasdrubal · Last edited by Hasdrubal on Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

Now that I've had time to experiment with the V4 Body Suit and expansion pack sets, I'm strongly disappointed. I can tell someone tried to make a good piece of clothing with nice features, but it falls far short of the quality we have come to expect.

For some reason the taper, x-scale, y-scale, and z-scale dials have been eliminated on most body parts of the body suit. The missing dials are important for fitting (in particular at the forearms and shins). I can only conjecture this change was for the benefit of clueless newbees who don't know what the damned dials are for.

The suit's geometry is also poorly done. On previous catsuit figures, spandex was built into the geometry between the breasts. You could texture heroic chest insignia designs on the clothing without distortion when applying breast morphs. It was the biggest advantage of using a body suit instead of texturing directly to the figure's body. Supergirl's "S" and other heroic insignia look like a gooey poured on mess when textured on the new bodysuit.

I don't recommend the bodysuit for anyone interested in Vicky 4, until they add the missing dials. If you have the Clothing Converter and a V3 catsuit to convert, be happy. The only thing I can compliment DAZ for was releasing a decent pair of gloves in the expansion pack.

GhostofMacbeth · Forum Member Joined: Sep 21, 2001 Posts: 619

I think all of the xyz controls were elimnated because they are eliminated on V4 as well. That is because they don't do so well and they didn't want to release a bad product. The scaling is primarily chained to the bodyform dials. There are other loosen dials in most areas to fix any issues you might have.

There are morphs for the spandex areas as well. Maybe I am missing something. They are in the style subset.

Hasdrubal

You are missing something.

There are chest spandex morphs, but they distort the texture mapping when applied. If the cloth between the breasts had been modelled directly into the suit's default geometry there would be little or no distortion in the clothing texture mapping.

To elaborate further, the base figure .cr2 could use the x,y,z, and taper dials as well. It will become more evident as you attempt more complicated projects.

The new suit doesn't conform as well as the previous body suits when striking poses saved in the programs library. The extra adjustment dials are necessary. If they didn't work well when the figure was being worked on, the figure shouldn't have been realeased. I suppose it's easy to get away with glitches when the first clothing figures to be released are bikini figures that don't have to fit over a large skin area.

Then again, it takes little to please some people.

GhostofMacbeth · Forum Member Joined: Sep 21, 2001 Posts: 619

But then it wouldn't be mapped right for other people who dislike the spandex look

That is the problem and it is a catch 22.

And I agree but DAZ didn't. Perhaps it came about from the scaling bug that DAZ Studio possessed but they felt that scaling shoul dbe removed and placed into the morphform dials. I also know that they way things were cut was the best way for the new joints but that came at the expense of the individual axis scaling.

From what I have seen the suit does work as well as the previous. It requires the magnetize clothing thing and maybe you missed that? There will always be a small ammount of poke through with some of the more extreme poses but there were in all of the bodysuits. Most times you can hide the underlying shape though.

But you might be better served asking or mentioning this in the DAZ forums. The creator of the suit has already addressed some things and might be willing to make a change.

Hasdrubal

You've raised some interesting points about DAZ Studio. They should stop pretending that DS and Poser are compatable. Incompatability was the biggest program bug when the first test versions came out, and the problems are still there. I'm surprised anyone who knows any better is still playing with DS. The free DS Millenium Dragon with body parts floating in the air was enough of a hint for me. Reporting all the glitches on DS could have become a full time job without pay. I don't play that game any more.

If I could catalog and isolate all the weird little quirks this figure and clothing set has I might report them, but it behaves so flakey I can't always reproduce the same errors twice. I do know that Vicky 4's finger tips shouldn't stretch 3 scale feet when you x-rotate her hips. Mostly I'm writing to tell others to be wary of their purchases.

The older catsuits didn't have as many problems. The V3 morphing catsuit only had problems with the right shoulder poking through, and that was it. I hope no one misunderstands. Vicky 4 is a useable product, in spite of its quirks. If they don't replace the missing dials on the base figure .cr2 they should be willing to accept a less popular product.

finister · Forum Member Joined: Oct 21, 2002 Posts: 95

I tried playing around with V4's face to get a unique cool face and gave up after a couple days playing with the limited dials. There's lots of dials but they have limited affect.

But when I saw the V4 catsuit promos (with a head piece included!!) I got excited about V4 again...

But reading Hasdrubal's assessment I'm disheartened.

I absolutely love BillyT's craftsmanship but he always has to make his clothes fit a particular type instead of making it fit the generic body so I can make it fit a body type I want...I get that same frustrating feeling with the whole V4 process - it's made to fit a certain mold and beyond that mold it doesn't look/work as well.

I was so looking forward to a more realistic V3 (in V4) with the kind of awesome clothes Aiko3 has been getting in droves lately.

Maybe it's still too early to fully appreciate the untapped potential of V4... ???

That catsuit looked to have a lot of potential with the head cap and all

Krasch

Personaly I suspect it's too early... I would imagine it'll take a little time for all you experts out there to learn the nuances and really make V4 shine.

Just like launch titles for new consoles. The launch games are never as good as the ones that come towards the end of the console's lifespan. It takes time for the developers to learn to really work the system.

Hasdrubal

Will Dupree posted a good page on the new features that are unique to V4 clothing. Click the link below

http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/tutorial/tutorial/-/?id=1942&trid=150217574

Much of the information is geared towards Daz Studio users, but section number 2 concerning the use of the new magnetizing poses in Poser is worth reading. I've found the magnetizing poses work well enough to be useful, but sometimes the poses intended for different V4 figure numbers in a scene, will work with figure's names of a different number other than the one intended. It's not a good idea to change your V4 figure's name when trying to manage multiple V4 figures in the same scene.

After completing texture sets for 2 Wonder Woman versions, 2 Ms. Marvel versions, and Red Sonja, I find the new approach to adjusting clothing fit to be gadgety and annoying, but fully functional for still renders. I'm somewhat hesitant to see how well the clothing stays magnetized from frame to frame when animated.

The most troublesome costume designs for using the V4 body suit will be projects like the black Ms. Marvel/Warbird costume, 70's Saturn Girl, Princess Projectra, and 70's Storm. Transparency mapping thigh boots and long gloves requires the use of mag poses. If your character design doesn't need to cover the arms or legs too well, the smaller suits included in the expansion pack are a better choice. I was pleased to discover the expansion pack suits can use the same maps as the body suit.

Some of you will say I should wait until some conforming long gloves and thigh boots are released rather than trans map boots and gloves onto a body suit. In the past, the thigh boots and gloves have been sculpted to look clunky, less form fitting, and devoid of pointy angles at the top which help to define certain characters.

I would still prefer the base V4 figure to be rigged with a more conventional set of dials that would also be present on the clothing. I've noticed the missing dials also cause problems when absent from converted Vicky 3 clothing and boots.

Bman666 · Forum Member Joined: Feb 23, 2006 Posts: 42 Location: Lost

Does anybody have a clue why Daz hide the morph
target's in the .cr2? I read an article awhile back stating this pain! It seems to me that they rushed
to get V4 out to the market!

I would have to agree a little with Krasch, she is still very young and I don't think they tried to get most of the bugs and glitches out that they could find....
_________________
"The Earth is the cradle of the mind but one cannot remain in the cradle forever."
- - Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, The Father of Rocketry

GhostofMacbeth · Forum Member Joined: Sep 21, 2001 Posts: 619

Which morph targets? If it is scaling then it is because they didn't like the way the mesh reacted to it and didn't want to put out something that was "broken" when the dials were used but there is a pose file that will unhide the dials at DAZ.

Krasch · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:03 am Post subject:

Bman666 · Forum Member Joined: Feb 23, 2006 Posts: 42 Location: Lost

Thanks for that info guys, I do agree I Service Release will Fix a lot of bugs and glitches but it will
probably take some time to find them.

Don't get me wrong She is very nice and seems a little easier on some things to work with!

So far they seem to be pumping a lot of stuff out for
her, and their is a lot of freebies out there to make
it at least a little worth while to work with at the time being!!!
_________________
"The Earth is the cradle of the mind but one cannot remain in the cradle forever."
- - Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, The Father of Rocketry