Don't have an account yet? You can create one. As a registered user you have some advantages like theme manager, comments configuration and post comments with your name.
Joined: Sep 08, 2001 Posts: 165 Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: which is better Marvel or DC
AslanC wrote:
Wow.
Negative much?
Sorry but I find this thread, which seemed to start as a harmelss "which is better" thread has degenerated into a negative outlook on humanity.
That's why I need superheroes (and will need them until I am an old man). I need hope.
Someone please try and take a positive turn here. This is getting bleak
Not so much "negative" as much as "realist".
Had the industry been as strong as it was back in the day, this thread would've actually had become a "flame" thread, much like some we see about politics or religion on other sites, only because we would vehemently defended our favorite company... the fact that this thread never did, only proves the "realism" of the situation.
Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 10:45 am Post subject: Re: which is better Marvel or DC
I have been collecting comics and graphic novels for the past 20 years and in all that time I have only purchased a few tiltes from either publisher.
Between DC and Marvel, DC are the strongest however I prefer the indi's I think the art work and the plot is by far stronger. From the Image camp their was wildstrom which is now under the DC badge, but still under Image, Witchblade, Magdelena, Dawn (which was CFR).
Dark Horse with the Crow, Ghost in the Shell, Blade, Spawn, Hard Boiled, Chronowar. Siruis Entertainment with Dogwitch, Animal Mystic, Chi - Chian, Poison Elves, Crypt of Dawn and Dawn.
I could go on for pages. DC and Marvel are the Microsoft of the comic industry, they mass produce for the masses, repeative titles and plot lines. I will continue to purchase the comics from the indi publishers.
Joined: Jul 03, 2003 Posts: 6 Location: New Orleans
Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: which is better Marvel or DC
Well, as much as I would lik to help out AlanC, I am goint o agree with one point that Jack made. The price of comics is becoming prohibitive. If the market is specifically for the 10-18 year old group (Which I do not truly believe it solely is, sorry Jack), then $3+ for a single book will push away your audience, who has litle pocket money to spend. So what the industry really needs is to figure out how to produce books for a sane price once again.
Now, having said that, I will say that Marvel has always seemed to have the better heroes, but DC has often had the better stories. (My opinion).)
Oh, BTW, if it is appropriate, my favorite character in all of comicdom has always been Illyana Rasputin from her "New Mutant" days. There was a 'bad girl' who was neither trashy nor overly developed, and who still managed to work with her team.
Joined: May 22, 2003 Posts: 1 Location: Central Virginia
Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: which is better Marvel or DC
I guess I'm showing my age, but in regard to the Rattler saying that Superman would be sued for property damage and by injured parties he saved and the I.R.S. for taxes. All of these were story lines back in the '50s, and '60s.
As to who is better, I think it is like the bible, depends on what you need in the way of a hero. I still get a chill when I hear the old tv theme song and opening voiceover for Superman and the Lone Ranger. Of course having been in 2nd squad-3rd platoon of E-co. rangers, I always end up blurry eyed watching band of brothers and am a little partial to sgt. rock and sgt. fury.
Why should any one be better? I enjoy most of them.
Joined: Sep 08, 2001 Posts: 165 Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: which is better Marvel or DC
Kathyrne wrote:
If the market is specifically for the 10-18 year old group (Which I do not truly believe it solely is, sorry Jack), then $3+ for a single book will push away your audience, who has litle pocket money to spend. So what the industry really needs is to figure out how to produce books for a sane price once again.
Not trying to be argumentative here, but I think you would actually be surprised as to the level of disposable income that people in that age bracket really have. At an anime convention in Texas last year, we (my artist and myself) had a booth next to an anime movie distributor that had raked in over 7 thousand dollars in three days of the convention, much of that money had come from males in the age range of 12-20 years old, spending as much as $500-$600 at a time on anime related products.
Our booth which was only advertising a “soon to be released” product generated almost a grand in sales from the same audience by selling $2.00 art prints of our product.
Also, lets take a solid look at the anime market itself…
According to John O’Donnell, President of Central Park Media – one of the three largest anime distribution firms in America, manga currently leads all categories of comic books. Overall annual sales in 2002 had doubled from the previous year and have been consistently growing “15% - 25%” a year. Mr. O’Donnell also foresees a “five to 10 years of solid market growth” within the anime and manga industry. As of March 2003, Mr. O’Donnell estimates the size of US manga graphic market at about $50 million to $150 million, and said that the anime market approaches $500 million.
That is just the anime market, that isn’t even factoring in the video game market. Much of that audience is a male audience between the ages of 10-25 years old, while a more segmentation of that market also includes other age and gender brackets, the primary segment of that market is the 10-25 male audience.
So, yes, the money is there in that age bracket, only it isn’t being spent on Marvel or DC comic books, but rather on Anime, Manga and also on Video Games… all which exceeds the $3 price range.
No, while it may contribute some, it really isn’t the cost of Marvel’s and DC Comic’s books that aren’t attracting the audiences. Nor is it really the result of poor advertising, because Anime and Manga comic books are rarely publicly advertised as well.
I am more inclined to believe that the lack of sales generated by that market is the direct result of loss of consumer interest in relation to the product itself, whether it is storylines, characters and artwork, or a combination of the three.
Anime is a little more hard-hitting in their storytelling and more mature (or risqué), the artwork is highly detailed and enhances the storytelling process and, unlike Marvel or DC, most Anime and Manga are fantastical or futuristic in their settings.
Batman in the 60’s had computers that could do just about anything he needed to help his crime fighting, even before computers were truly realized or used in the society in that time. Today, the products that many of the heroes used back in the 60’s and 70’s, even in the early 80’s, are no longer the things that seemed fantastical or futuristic to ordinary citizens back then.
However, today, everyone owns a computer. We know their strengths and weaknesses and it no longer captivates us as we see the ‘Caped Crusader’ hunched over a lit computer screen in a darkened Bat Cave.
Spiderman, Batman, Superman, the X-Men and Captain America have been reduced to fighting against a criminal system… a system which no longer concerns American audiences near as much as Terrorists.
There are no more evil Nazi’s (or Red Skull) for Captain America to fight against, which hooked audiences because that threat was real to them and Captain America and Bucky addressed those issues personally for us… fighting against a threat that held our attention and troubled our Nation.
Kids these days aren’t troubled by bank robbers, jewel heists or muggers (not like in the 80’s), what frightens kids these days are Terrorists and, more importantly, the future.
And I think that is why Anime and Manga does as well as it does with kids. The stories deal with demons (look at the success of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel), or ‘Boomers’ (robots from Bubble Gum Crisis), they deal with technology in a state of advance that we have yet to reach as a society and as such captures the hearts and the imagination of the audience who read and collect that stuff…
…and let’s not forget the usual gratuitous panty shot to boot. )
Marvel and DC can not hope to compete against that without changing their entire format and superhero lineup… which anyone who knows much about the comic industry, those two HATE change of ANY kind!!
Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 12:12 am Post subject: Re: which is better Marvel or DC
For the record I just want to point out, I never said that comics weren't too expensive, or not in trouble. I simply pointed out that the thread was heading into a negative view of humanity.
Just want to be clear on that
Hang me for the crimes I commit, not the ones I am accused of
Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 12:28 am Post subject: Re: which is better Marvel or DC
I think the cost per book is a factor becuse it's high for 1/12 of a story. Anime, Manga, or even a video game represents a much more complete story than for the purchase than the that of a comic book. They also ussually have better story telling since the trend in American comic art is to do as many full and splash pages per book as possible.
Quote:
Kids these days aren’t troubled by bank robbers, jewel heists or muggers (not like in the 80’s), what frightens kids these days are Terrorists and, more importantly, the future.
An important point, and it kind f goes back to what I originally said. We have no more super villians. Our problems are scumbags like Orrin Hatch trying to pass a law to make file swapping a feloy so the DOJ can further invade our homes through our internet connection. The RIAA buying enough influence in our court system to side step due process.
Without getting to political, our enemies are large corparation who buy off our elected officials, and their armies of lawyers who we simple can't afford to defend outselves against.
Even though on some level we all know this, our Hero's certainly can't address these concerns in a post 9-11 world because somehow defend our rights has become "anti-patriotic".
Last edited by Ratteler on Mon May 31, 2004 3:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
Joined: May 25, 2002 Posts: 347 Location: Somewhere in Maryland
Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 5:42 am Post subject: Re: which is better Marvel or DC
Ratteler, your last post finally cleared up what you were trying to say. (Yours, too, Jack.) And of course, I feel compelled to add my two cents...
I remember a while ago when a new James Bond movie came out, a movie reviewer torched the film because the villain was weak. "After all," he said, "villains make the movies work or fail, not Bond." In that respect, I think I agree with you. Comic villains have always tapped into current fears, whether Nazis, them damn Russkies, aliens, whatever. The West really doesn't have any organized enemies, no concrete fear of large-scale war. Thus, comics must use the "small scale villain," people or organizations who threaten life on a small level, like serial killers, terrorists, mobsters. (And yes, I know that terror attacks have the potential to kill thousands, but compare that to the Cold War fear of a Soviet nuclear attack.)
So maybe the problem is two-fold:
1. Comics lack interesting villains because readers can't make a subconscious connection between the threat the villains pose and the threats the reader feels in everyday life, and
2. Comic writing must still live within the Comic Code, so you can't have Power Girl "experiencing" tentacles.
I still think that good writing can overcome both deficiencies, but good story-telling requires a time commitment from the writer AND the reader. I think teenagers still possess both the desire to read interesting stories and the time to do so (as evidenced by anyone who read the five billion page Harry Potter books).
As for the "evil corporation and evil government" aspect of this thread, comics have always dealt with both. Corrupt politicians and globe-spanning, power-hungry corporations have been recurrent themes in comics since the 1960s. To be honest, I think comics can't have either in plotlines because, well, readers EXPECT politicians to be corrupt and EXPECT corporations to want to rule the planet. (Okay, maybe not rule the planet, but readers know that corporations want to maximize profits by breaking laws and just being nasty.)
I'll be honest, here: I don't like manga and anime. It's just a preference thing, so it's hard for me to understand why kids blow big bucks on either. (And I won't even get into dressing up like anime characters; suffice to say that 300-pound chicks have NO business wearing anime girl costumes.) However, I CAN understand choosing a video game over a comic. For $45, I can buy a game that will give me 20-30 hours of enjoyment (and frustration at times). For $45, I can buy around 12 comics. Will I get the same thrills? Maybe, if the comic's written well. If not, then I have to drop more money.
Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: which is better Marvel or DC
BillyBob wrote:
(Okay, maybe not rule the planet, but readers know that corporations want to maximize profits by breaking laws and just being nasty.)
BillyBob
That's the problem right there. The evil Corparations aren't breaking the law anymore, they're just using it.
Any one of us can be ripped off for about $4000. Anything less than that and you won't see a return on your lawyers fee even if you win.
The question is, what could Superman do about that?
Our real world villians aren't a single entity.
Personally, I think the whole war with Iraq thing was just to divert our attention from our real problems, and it wouldn't suprise me in the slightest if evidence came to the surface that 9-11 was ALLOWED to happen. It was the greatest thing that ever happened to those people in the American Govt. who wanted to gain control over our "pesky" civil rights.
We are at a point in history where only a fundamental change in the system could "save" us.
I don't think "Superman the revolutionary" would ever be allowed to print.
Indy books can handle stuff like that. They can always cover it with a plot device that says "This isn't really our world." It's the near future, or an alternate universe.
Our hero's have been rendered impotent to spite all their powers because it is the Law itself that has gone wrong. Ironically it's our super villians who are most likely to take on the system. They never played by the rules, so now that the rules have gone bad... they're in the same boat they always were, but now with justification.
I still think that good writing can overcome both deficiencies, but good story-telling requires a time commitment from the writer AND the reader. I think teenagers still possess both the desire to read interesting stories and the time to do so (as evidenced by anyone who read the five billion page Harry Potter books).
I don't profess to be a comics expert by any means, but I think BillyBob has hit on the problem. There's been a trend in the Big 2 (and let's face it, in other comics, American movies, advertising and television) to place ALL of the importance on flashy art/graphics.
Comic writers get paid nothing. Even less than notoriously underpaid comic artists and colorists. Now, where does the story come from? Usually it's from the writer. That's not saying that there aren't artists who are also good storytellers, but one only has to look at the majority of comics to realize MOST AREN'T.
I'm not downplaying the importance of good art. What I am saying is that maybe people are getting tired of all style, no substance. Ya think?
Joined: May 09, 2004 Posts: 21 Location: New York City
Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 5:10 pm Post subject:
and I just made this post to see which is better marvel or dc...wonder what would happen if I made a post to see wich movie company is better.... _________________ Groovy.
All times are GMT - 7 Hours Goto page Previous1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Profile
Search
Memberlist
Log in to check your private messages
Usergroups
FAQ & TOS
Log in
)
