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Joined: Mar 11, 2004 Posts: 102 Location: Portugal
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:07 am Post subject: The ultimates
I didn't read for a long time comics.
now i got THE ULTIMATES and for my surprise
i see Dr. Banner being treated like shit. Dr.Pym and he's Ms. having a house discussion and hiting each other.
the Hulk KILLING milions of american citizens.
If i remember well,wasent the heroes in comics suposed to be some kind of role models?
Joined: Jan 28, 2004 Posts: 45 Location: Massachusetts
Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: The ultimates
... I find myself baffled by your statement. Marvel has never been in the business of creating role models. The only characters ever created by them who could possibly be seen as role models are Captain America and Spiderman.
Regarding the way that the others treat Banner, well, how would you treat a co-worker who was wasting company funds on the cosmetic pursuit of trying to turn himself into a super-soldier, and who instead ended up turning himself into a giant destructive monster?
Regarding the idea of either Giant-Man or Hulk being seen as "role models"... first of all, there's an age-appropriateness rating on the cover of every issue of every Marvel comic, including Ultimates. And second of all, Pym and Banner are both presented as flawed characters. Pym is overly egotistical about his accomplishments (indeed, the fight that you mentioned, between him and his wife, happened because he got defensive when she attempted to deflate his ego. Banner, meanwhile, was envious of his former teammates because they all had superpowers, and this eventually drove him to use a flawed serum on himself for no other reason than to make himself big. The result of his choice was the destruction of several city-blocks.
And for anyone who's stupid enough to consider imitating these behaviors, the current run of the Ultimates shows that both Pym and Banner were punished for their respective crimes. Pym was fired from the group, and, due to the fact that his actions were publicized, he's been unable to get work. What's more, the government owns all the technology that turned him into Giant-Man, so a whole army of Giants have been made, rendering him obsolete. Meanwhile, Banner got tried for the mass-murders he committed, and he has thus fled the country.
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:40 am Post subject: Re: The ultimates
I've read both volumes of the Ultimates. Bloody brilliant. Didn't anyone find it hard to believe that in all of his battles with the army and his rampages, the Hulk never hurt anyone??
As for Giant Man, as Yellowjacket, he DID hit his wife.
Remember, Iron Man WAS an alcoholic, The Black Widow was a Russian spy, Hawkeye was a villian. All pretty much standard Marvel stuff, just made more logical.
I for one enjoyed seeing a Captain America who thought, reacted and behaved like what he has always claimed to be... a SOLDIER.
Bloody BRILLIANT stuff!
Joined: May 31, 2002 Posts: 846 Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:11 pm Post subject:
I fully agree - And seeing Cap hanging out with all his "old" friends all the time - Showing that yes, in his mind, he is much older than he looks.
The possibility that THOR is not a God, but just a F'd up human being with a power suit on his chest to give him the power of a god.
And if youre reading The Ultimates 2 currently on the stands, then what was done to Hawkeyes family - They way Thor is being held and ridiculed - Even having SHIELD leader Fury (A Black man), arrange to have the worlds greatest hit man kill him, only to kill the hitman first, so that he never has to worry about him later on.
Truly amazing writing, and the artwork is fantastic! _________________ =============================
New World Media/Muskateer Graphics
~Live the dream, experience the nightmare
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Joined: May 31, 2002 Posts: 38 Location: Springfield Gardens, NY
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: The ultimates
Damn. Wish I hadn't come in here. Learned a bit more than I needed to know about the current Ultimates run (was waiting for the trade; as I did with the first run). No one's fault but my own.
I have no problem with the humanization of these characters. I think it makes them a lot more interesting. And, yeah, it's always cracked me up that no one ever got hurt during the Hulk's rampages. Even on the tv show, it kinda drove me nuts that ol' Hulkie only attacked bad people, regardless of whom was in the room!
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: The ultimates
Not having actually read the ultimates I can only comment as a fan of the original Hulk. He only attacked people who made him angry, thus the assumption was always unwritten, that good people don't make the hulk angry and thus were never harmed. Very simple therum for much simpler times.
A disclaimer first: I always was a big Avengers fan ever since I was a kid. I started comics with The Avengers back in the late 1970's, and even when I didn't buy their book I sort of kept track of what was going on in their comic.
So I gotta say... I really do like what's been done in "The Ultimates". Not only "humanizing" the characters, but updating them. We see a lot of the elements that were seen in the original comic (Tony Stark's alcoholism, marital problems between the Pyms, Bruce Banner's mental/emotional problems), only dealt with in a much more realistic way, and with more brevity than the original elements were.
I also enjoy the new elements Millar's added to the story. It's really looking like the group is, ultimately, its own worst enemy, doesn't it?
Mizrael, of course you realize that in reality, it is not only bad people that make us angry. The Hulk's rampages, as I recall, were not restricted only to those who angered him. Cars, tanks, helicopters and buildings were often freely destroyed and the Hulk often stated how much he hated "puny humans", not to mention the soldiers involved. Battles with the Avengers and the Fantastic Four often involved buildings being ripped out of their foundations. Frankly, the idea that the Hulk never killed an innocent was patently ridiculous. I think that the Ultimates has handled this in a much more realistic fashion.
Holes or no holes, it's one of those storylines that really makes you want to read the next issue, isn't it?
And I really, *really* like Brian Hitch's artwork. He was fantastic in his run on "The Authority" for Wildstorm, and he seems to just get better and better, in my opinion.
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