F****DTASTIC FOUR!!! Uggggggggghhh!

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

I think he's refereing to the Green Goblin.

He's a lot Closer to how Dr. Doom should look than Jessica Alba is to Sure Storm. :roll:

It's like Peanut butter and Turkey. I like them both... JUST NOT SANDWICHED TOGETHER!!!

Nim_Prodaction

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

It didn't really strike me as "colored" green as much as reflecting green from the environment.

Unlike Jessica who has been colored white.

Nim_Prodaction

if the mask isn't colored green, why he would have any resemble with Green Goblin??

No ofence Rattler put i'm just picking on you :wink:

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

Because in the first Spider-man they had to UckFay certain things up. Like Organinc Web Shooters, ditching Gwen Stacey.

They just did it with the script and casting in FF.

itisitex · Forum Member Joined: Sep 01, 2002 Posts: 186 Location: Tx

Hey the last FF movie made never got released into any theater that i know of so it doesn't have a standing as a film that can make money. That being said i am sure they are not wanting to sink a bunch of money into a movie that has bombed before. If Alba is going to play Sue she might have been the most talented person that auditioned.
Since this is about FF i will leave how horrible the x-men movies were for another time.

Mizrael · Forum Member Joined: Jan 18, 2004 Posts: 258

finister · Forum Member Joined: Oct 21, 2002 Posts: 95

I think comics are mythical and although the mythic heroes remain the same at their core, their outward appearance changes to fit the times.

How many non-caucausians are in the original FF comics? How many are in the entire Marvel comics of the 60's?
Silver Surfer?

I liked Eartha Kitt as CatWoman better than boney Michelle Pfiffer.

Maybe it's just personal taste.

Good poll question

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

While Eartha Kitt played "Catwoman" I don't think she was ever proclaimed to be Selina Kyle.

Personally Julie Newmar was always my favorite catwoman.

To disreguard a rich history of these characters and change them TOO much with the times hurts both sides of the equation.

If you're going to make Superman a black guy, that's fine. Superman is a title. My problem is when you make that black guy Clark Kent.

Not only have you diminished a cultural icon, and thereby said that what it stood for is wrong... but you've also robbed the culture that you switched the character too of a freedom and uniqueness that would come from developing an original character that is actually part of that culture.

While there is a place for great "elsewhere" or "alternate universe" stories like this, I think they need to be kept as that. This is part of where WE ALL came from. If we disreguard this popular culture history, what real value does it have?

finister · Forum Member Joined: Oct 21, 2002 Posts: 95

I agree, Julie Newmar was born to play Catwoman...she's my favorite too (I've been watching reruns of the Batman TV show this week..ha ha)

To me comicbook heroes like Supes and Bats and the FF are like Hercules....like Joseph Campbell's 'Hero with a thousand faces'.

Kevin Sorbo looks more like a 7 foot viking than a curly haired greek to me. Then take Disney's animated version of Hercules, he's suddenly the all-american blue eyed California adonis with a valley boy voice over. The myth of Hercules has been reconstructed to fit our times. But the core struggle of Hercules remains the same. In many ways, Superman has many of the same qualities as Hercules: superpowers, not fitting in, his parents visit him as visions, etc.

Look at how Shakespeare's plays have been redone in completely different ethnic settings:

Richard III with Ian McClelland as a german nazi
Romeo and Juliet with Dicaprio as a modern punk kid
A new Othello's just been made as a cop show I believe.

The characters and story struggles remain the same...they're just presented in a different way...expressed with a different point of view.

I think if Clark Kent was a black man and the story was told instead with him growing up with a black farmer family then moving to the city and him discovering he's fromKrypton and the whole myth told from the point of view of a black man...we'd still get Superman. Lois Lane might be black but she's still Lois.

One can read a novel version of say a Batman story and try to imagine all the characters being asian and Gotham City is another name for Tokyo..and the character's myth remains exactly the same.

I think I see what you mean about losing the authentic quality of Stan Lee's original Fantastic Four concept, but here is the basic story of the Fantastic Four which will be expressed a thousand ways over a thousand years:

There are four people who go together on a trip to a mysterious place and return changed. They each react to this change in their own unique way. Their bond is that only these four can relate to each other because only they experienced the same journey of change, although the changes manifest differently for each person. There is a leader (Stretch), a follower (Sue), a rebel (Flame), and a loner (Thing).

The 'accident' that changes them can be altered
The 'manifestation' of their change (powers) can be altered
Their ethnic background and story setting can be altered

What cannot be altered is the role each character plays and the core struggle that makes people want to hear the story.

I agree with you that Stan Lee's original concept is being 'tainted' by not following his story to the letter...but it's almost inevitable - primarily because the core struggle of the story he wrote is so powerfully attractive to any audience - it'll stand the test of being expressed in a new light.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I hear Charlize Theron is going to play Aeon Flux. Now, I do hope they stay true to the original and have her in that skimpy outfit

Mizrael · Forum Member Joined: Jan 18, 2004 Posts: 258

Frankly, I find your distaste for Jessica Alba as Susan Storm to be bordering on Rascist if not blantant rascism. She looks white enough to me and if not for this thread I would never have known anything about her racial background.

As far as that goes, I'm white myself but I always found Eartha Kitt's portrayal as Catwoman to be much better than Julie Newmar's. She purred better and her throaty growls sent chills down my spine as a kid! Who gives a flock what color she was! :roll:

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

finister · Forum Member Joined: Oct 21, 2002 Posts: 95

Eartha's a little feisty Catwoman isn't she

Eartha got that Kitty car with the paws and tail - ha ha

We cross posted, Ratteler, so I'll answer ya here.

My point is that it's been 40 years since the Fantastic Four first appeared and even in that short period of time they've changed in the comic book. In another 100 years they're sure to look differently to the those future readers/viewers.

Stan Lee's 1960's Invisible Woman wasn't put front and center as a sex symbol as much as she is nowadays since Jim Lee turned her into a heroine always getting her uniform torn up or provocatively undressing which his artist followers have continued.
But in the 60's Stan was selling mainly to kids whereas Jim's selling mainly to young men. This is a change to the original story that is fueled by the times.

My kid gets the GameInformer magazine which has the cast of FF on the cover this issue. Personally, no one in that cast reflects my own 'interpretation' of what the FF looked like.

The guy playing Stretch is a British stage actor I like but he's no Stretch. Jessica looks hot but I always pictured Invisible Woman a little older. The Thing make up looks goofy...I thought CGI would have overcome that. The Flame kid doesn't look like the one I know from the 60's comic....he actually looks too old to me.

I don't think there's a way for a Hollywood cast to cater to every Fantastic Four fan's interpretation of the comic heroes....especially for a fan base with a 20-30 age difference.

The cast of Power Rangers changed over twenty faces...I had to watch it with my kid

(along with Mutant Turtles...thank God he was older before Pokemon).

But the point is that the Red Ranger remained the Red Ranger even after 8 actors played the part....each actor representing a different ethnic group usually.

The Red Ranger remained the same no matter what his ethnic background was or what he looked like.

The Thing will be the Thing no matter if he's Ben or a sumo wrestler named Tuko. The Thing as a member of the Fantastic Four remains the same at his core.

I think ones tolerance for the changes is different for each of us.

That Jessica Alba is playing a latino Invisible Woman doesn't bother me. Her acting style is what bothers me more.

To me, the Invisible Woman was the peace maker between the three boys constant in-fighting. Her strength is that even though she's not as outgoing a personality as the others, she is really the glue that keeps the FF together. If they allow Alba to be a center stage role in the FF then that is changing the basic quality of the story. It'd be like the Joker suddenly becoming a quiet recluse.

Sorry for my long posts...

Ratteler · Forum Member Joined: Jun 10, 2002 Posts: 561 Location: NYC

finister · Forum Member Joined: Oct 21, 2002 Posts: 95

Oops, we crossposted again, Ratteler