Homogenization - Round Table

finister · Forum Member Joined: Oct 21, 2002 Posts: 97

Sorry, I was a bit tipsy the other day..too many curse words...ugh.

But, I think an artist is driven to create something for 'pure' reasons and then has the drive to share their work with others as some sense of 'community'.

It's when people start wanting to differentiate the best from the worst, real art from fake art, authentic to pretend, etc...that's when artists egos start getting involved.

I think a 13 year old kid picking up Poser, rendering a scene and sharing it with everyone is not an ego-based thing...it's a desire to be one of the gang, some sense of, some longing for being a part of a community.

It's like refusing to listen to synthesizer music because it's not authentic...not making 'real' sounds. It is making sounds though.

I don't think the human spirit will ever allow total homogenization in any realm even though critics may subconsciously be trying to spur artists to fit inside made up expectations to fit a narrow view of 'art'

palmers · Forum Member Joined: Jun 07, 2002 Posts: 397

Critics have always done that, and at the moment fine visual art is locked in an anti-talent philosophy which I think derives from a lack of artistic feeling: faced with photography, a hundred years ago the critics scuttled away from representation and haven't found the courage to travel back yet.

Homogenisation will only happen when it's our aim. If we set out to make images like most of the others, and if those others are pretty much untreated, bought product in default renders, the results will be homogenous. When we set out to change the results, to produce something of our own - when we stop tracing - they won't be.

IMP.
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lectatege · Forum Member Joined: Mar 14, 2006 Posts: 210

Hullo Finister. Nice to note I'm not the only one with a dirty mouth. Although I appreciate the necessity for nicety in social intercourse on the net when you feel passionately about something its hard not to be effing and blinding all over the place ...

Anyway, I have to put my hands up straightaway and say that I have never worked in Poser, but I do work extensively with Photoshop and often have misgivings about the use of filters (although not enough to eschew the use of them myself)

I think the problems are:
a) That young artists see that thay can get a very slick quick effect that impresses the hell out of their less knowledgeable contemparies, without taking on board the fact that any dodo with the same programme can achieve the same effect
b)That the actual programmes themselves, because of their very nature, being algorhythmically based, give a very predictable 'dead' effect
and
c)if young artists go straight into programmes like Poser, Bryce, Photoshop whatever without having done the groundwork first i.e learning how to draw then they never actually learn how to look, which to my mind constitutes 90% of drawing skills

As a spiritually inclined friend was wont to say: "First you must learn to sweep the steps of the temple..."

After that you can do what you bl**dy well like, and I think the genuinely creative (rather than imitative) artist will not want a homogeneous experience, which is where true authenticity comes in.

Programmes are a good servant and a bad master,
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palmers · Forum Member Joined: Jun 07, 2002 Posts: 397

Which I think is more or less where I'm coming from. I was drawing in the same style before Poser existed as I'm illustrating in using Poser now, and my use of Poser is to let it do its thing - then mess it all up.

IMP.
_________________
RIVER: skin on the outside. First chapter FREE from www.ianmpalmer.com

Ptrope · Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Homogenization - Round Table

I think the issue with Poser is not the program itself, but the proliferation of websites devoted to it, particularly to publicly posting one's art. And even that isn't so much a 'problem' as just an observation on how easy it is to now 'publish' one's art.

Like text messaging, the Internet makes it possible to post with no concern for editing - we are, as a culture, apparently more concerned with making ourselves heard than we are with making ourselves understood, and it applies to art, as well. When it was work to get public exposure of one's art, there was more time taken to make sure the final work was worth the effort. Now, even a lot of people with good ideas post those ideas long before they are done, and of course, having more 'incomplete' artwork in the galleries makes it appear acceptable, that the bar isn't as high as maybe some people think it is. The truth is, the bar hasn't been lowered at all - it's just that so many of us - and I include myself - sometimes take the shortcut around the bar, or under it, rather than really committing ourselves to jumping over it or even raising it, at least on a personal level. Even today, I spent pretty much all day on an image that, when done, was as good or better than many of the ones I've seen on some very popular and prolific websites, and I was tempted to post it, but then I started thinking that, no matter how long it had taken or how much work I'd already put into it, it wasn't good enough for me, and I didn't want to have to explain why. I put more work into this one picture than any others I've done lately, but even if it may be 'good enough,' it really isn't good enough, at all. And even though the tool, Poser 6, had a lot to do with how long the work took, and honestly, I wish I could tell more accurately what a render was going to look like before I start it, it's not the tool that is responsible for the final image - it's me - it's my responsibility to do my best with the tools I have, not to blame them for my lack of commitment. And not to look upon the users of such tools as somehow to blame for bad art. Throw out the tool, and we'd still have bad art - we just wouldn't have as much of it; Poser is only the scapegoat.

Hasdrubal · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Homogenization - Round Table

Reply to Ptrope,

Does everything have to be finished in order to satisfy?

A perfectionist work ethic is an admirable trait, but it's probably not worth the long protracted rise in blood pressure. The open minded among us would welcome your guilty pleasures in the gallery. I've seen enough of your work to know you're not some newbee. Unfinished pictures often have some qualities that draw you in, even if it's just a carefully staged pose or cheesey humor.

Is the idea behind the image, or the physical artifact of the image more important?

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