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If it makes you feel better, we get this way without the benefit of medication. So ours is a sort of all-natural insane creativity, Dana.
We plan on bottling it and selling it on our website for $35 a pop. Pre order your own now! _________________ "It is perfectly easy to be original by violating the laws of decency and the canons of good taste."
Joined: May 30, 2002 Posts: 524 Location: Mesa Arizona
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 8:20 pm Post subject:
Please, I take enough pills a day to drive me bonkers.. I don't need natural insanity pills to assist me..I am already there. _________________ Dana Haywood
<a href=heresyproduction.com>Heresy Studios</a>
Dana - nope...you wish. Then again the NDA would preclude me from saying yes or no so forget I said anything.
but nope.
snarl*bite*scratch*growl*bitch
I've been in full blown writers block for two days.
!@#$ time waster !@#$ bum!@#$ hippie!!
Ain't nobody's got a strip out there what I'm not TOTALY caught up with the story line.
There's some comfort in that.
!@#$ time waster !@#$ bum!@#$ hippie!@#$ pagan!!
Book? What book? My book? I can't even put three words together without sounding like someone whose balls I'd like to put a boot into.
I had to open my mouth didn't I? Jerkface! !@#$ Duffelbag!
The next 48 hours are not going to be pretty. Everyone stand back.
snarl*bite*scratch*growl*bitch
Joined: Jun 09, 2002 Posts: 288 Location: Southeastern United States
Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:32 pm Post subject:
Well hopefully a certain Fey character and a nice little christian girl hero can help you out JJE, just look at page three of this discussion for a Argoforg post with a web addy. Might help to lighten your mood.
Joined: Jun 09, 2002 Posts: 288 Location: Southeastern United States
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:37 am Post subject:
As much as I would love to take full credit for that wonderful strip, alas, my co-conspirator ARgoForg is entirely to blame for it. See what abusing Ginseng and Yellow Jackets can do to you kids? Isn't it GREAT? 8)
Joined: May 25, 2002 Posts: 347 Location: Somewhere in Maryland
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 7:27 am Post subject:
An interesting thread. Of course, I can't resist the urge to pull up a soapbox and pontificate.
There are a whole host of difficulties with women in comics, many of which have already been mentioned.
- Marketing is a biggie. Although the comic reading public change, it is still predominantly male. So do you sell an empowered woman that saves men after they're sexually assaulted and tortured or do you sell big-breasted women who wear four square inches of clothing?
- In every culture I can think of, women are seen as caregivers and the keepers of civilization. (I emphasize the word "seen" here. Men fulfill these roles in actuality, of course, but for the bulk of the world, if you show them a picture of who is nurturing, a man or a woman, most would choose the woman.) Women might have absolutely no legal rights outside the home, but in the home, most societies have said that they should educate the children, teach them values, etc. (Victorian beliefs, the cult of domesticity, and all that.) Therefore, attacking a woman isn't just an attack on the person, but an attack on nurturing, children, and civilization. In this context, violence against a woman leads to some important things in the US: 1) the villain has attacked the foundations of society, effectively pushing him or her "beyond the pale," 2) the male lead has failed in his most basic duty, which is protecting women and civilization, and 3) the male lead must correct the balance, whether by avenging the violence or choosing not to go overbord with the violence. (Not going overboard shows that civilization hasn't completely failed, despite the attack against it.)
- Brace yourselves for a sweeping comment: a big problem is that most writers and artists are men. (I know every male on the list will protest his innocence and swear that he creates authentic, strong women; bear with me.) It is inherently difficult to write about what you don't know. This is the same reason that you have an incredibly small number of non-white characters in comics. (I'm not talking about random "filler" people.) A white male can read books, talk to people, and try to become as educated as possible, but it is still incredibly difficult to give an authentic voice to a female character or someone of another culture or race.
- I think this has been mentioned before; if so, pardon the repetition. In the bunched-up, anal retentive US, there is a subconscious substitution of violence for sex. This is why American TV shows and movies are INCREDIBLY violent when compared with Europe and other places with healthier sexual attitudes. Comics are no exception. If you can't show a couple doing the horizontal mambo, then you can show a near orgasmic sequence of man/woman violence like the Bullseye/Elektra fight. Comic violence against women is a societally acceptable way to show sex in comics.
There. I think I've kicked the ass of all the other long-winded types. My work here is done.
Joined: May 30, 2002 Posts: 524 Location: Mesa Arizona
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:03 pm Post subject:
Whoa whoa whoa.. you can't just come in here, and repeat what already been said.. it is just not right. J/k. I agree with a fair portion of what you said..but in my point of view, it isn't the fact men can't write female characters, a lot of men don't want to try.
I mean, take a look at me.. I write heresy which has a bunch of females in the roles which a lot of mainstream would bulk at..but you wanna know something? Whether you know it or not.. just because my name is Dana don't mean I am a girl. I am a guy, flesh and bone. Granted, getting into the female psych isn't easy.. hell, it might even include getting in touch with your feminine side. All I can say is.. that a lot of people don't even try, and so they get stuck with the clutch story.
You know.. "I can't write a female character, so we will just have her as a submissive little girl with some powers, but no match for a supercharge meglomaniac villian."
In the end, it all comes to something called effort. That a key thing I stress upon when I read some of the online books I seen. Some, in my opinion, don't display enough effort.. sprite comics for one. Using Mario from Nintendo game system to write a story just doesn't cut it in my book, but that me. I prefer something that requires effort.. posing vicky/steph for example. Maybe I am crictal..yea..but I rather be critical, then braindead. That my opinion, and I am sticking to it. _________________ Dana Haywood
<a href=heresyproduction.com>Heresy Studios</a>
"- Brace yourselves for a sweeping comment: a big problem is that most writers and artists are men. (I know every male on the list will protest his innocence and swear that he creates authentic, strong women; bear with me.) It is inherently difficult to write about what you don't know. " - BillyBob
Actually, that in a nutshell is why I started this off asking the question "How do we avoid the traps, and is it possible to do so completely?" - was working from the awareness that a lot of the way mainline comics work is due to it being a "male" industry, from writing, to editing, to executive levels, to a lot of the targeted markets.
I think that a lot of the mishandling of characters we've noted comes from just that: male writers unable to make the conceptual leap into the mind of an "alien species". [And women are and alien species to most males... ]
It's going to be interesting to watch and see if the the growing numbers of female writers in mainstream comics get sucked into the same traps by marketing and editorial pressures...
Heh. In a way it's inherently unfair that the reverse isn't always true: Leigh Brackett seemed to have no problems with handling a quintessential male character type [Eric John Stark] in a predominately male genre [Pulps]. Ditto for Bujold in the Vorkosigan series... Women seem to be able to get inside the heads of their alien co-species effectively. _________________ "I'd add a legitimate comment here, but that would mean reading everything, which I have no patience for." - Slynky
Joined: May 30, 2002 Posts: 524 Location: Mesa Arizona
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 10:34 am Post subject:
WEll, you know the old saying.. Men are predictable..but to figure out what a woman wants.. wait a few millinium and you will figure it out eventually...oh you don't live that long? oh well. That how it is;) _________________ Dana Haywood
<a href=heresyproduction.com>Heresy Studios</a>
Yup most are men.
Because (sweeping comment) it's only been recently that comics have been anything but shallow and effemeral.
The few female artists out there are producing works of exceptional insight.
viz Lynda Barry "One Hundred Demons"
Being able to write a believable female character is the first step right after "Being able to write a believable character in the first place"
Joined: May 30, 2002 Posts: 524 Location: Mesa Arizona
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 8:28 pm Post subject:
Oh.. then that excludes me.. I mean, honestly.. how many of my characters are actually believable. _________________ Dana Haywood
<a href=heresyproduction.com>Heresy Studios</a>
Heh. Cool stuff: Greg Blackman over at Halfmoon Comics has a few words that pretty well seems to sum up the attitudes of a lot of us here. I'm going to take the liberty of quoting him...
"Ever watched a television show, seen a movie or read a comic book and thought, 'I could do better than that!’ Me too. That is what Halfmoon is all about.
As a genre fan, I increasingly find myself dazzled by the widespread banality that seems to permeate our Americanised culture. Horror films that don’t horrify, thrillers that don’t thrill, erotic films with all the erotica cut out, comedy that hardly raises a laugh. More and more I find myself screaming ‘I’m an adult! Don’t protect me, let me choose for myself what I can and can’t handle!’ If you’re gonna do something do it with passion, commitment and above all do it with some balls!
I want to see creators lead me into new and frightening places and challenge my dull preconceptions about what entertainment should and shouldn’t be. I want to see characters that are as lost, frightened and confused as real people. I want to read a comic book where the creators are not so paralysed by the corporate homogeny machine that they cannot make brave moves or try new things with a stale genre.
And, gentle reader, with the internet in full swing it was only ever a matter of time before some of us got pissed off and started doing it ourselves.
Then we face the next problem; true independence. No censorship, total creative freedom, nobody imposing rules upon your product that don’t belong. Sounds great doesn’t it?
Unfortunately it isn’t all rosy. No money, having to hold down a dayjob and then come home and work some more, no financial security or reward for you hard work. And the product itself can suffer, for as well as doing all the corporate crap, editors and large companies act to ensure a level of quality and professionalism that we as readers often take for granted when we say ‘I could do that!” (if you don’t believe me, go and take a look and our online ‘competition’). Looking back at Episode 1, for example, it is abundantly clear to me that Artist and Letterer are two VERY different jobs and a knack for one does not mean you will be any good at the other.
As I write this the final big push to get Halfmoon online begins. My life currently consists of days spent working in a toyshop and nights spent feverishly phoning, drawing, writing and organising myself well enough to get up the next morning and start again. After four years in the making, one failed launch, near bankruptcy, a complete recreation of the site from scratch, doubts, fears, cruel fate, heartaches and more drama than a Melrose Place double bill, we are finally on the home stretch.
The site is almost complete. It is dark, stylish, minimalist and not crowded with entirely inappropriate banners. In Leon I have found a writer that the world cannot ignore. The story is bold, shocking and shows us new sides of genre staples we never thought existed. The art is dark, cinematic and shows a clear leap from Episode to Episode (when you see number 6 you’ll know what I mean, trust me). The characters are memorable and familiar without being predictable. In short, we are achieving what we set out to achieve and we are pushing ourselves further and harder than ever before.
The truth is that even if nothing comes of it and we fail to attract any kind of attention or fanbase, it will still have been worth it. As we prepare to relaunch Episodes 1 & 2 I have just completed Episode 6, and looking back over the last few years I would not change a thing. Sure it’s been tough, but so is any endeavour that is worth a damn. What it has cost me personally and financially is more than offset by all I have learned as a creator, a businessman and a human being. And, even if Leon and I fail in our dream to make Halfmoon the prototype for a new generation of online graphic novels, we can still turn to our kids in the years to come and say that we were brave enough to take a proper shot at our dreams.
If a man can say that, then there is no disgrace in failure.
That is what Halfmoon is all about.
Greg Blackman - Essex - 5th October 2002" - From Halfmoon's About page.
Nicely said... and the bit on:
"I want to see creators lead me into new and frightening places and challenge my dull preconceptions about what entertainment should and shouldn’t be. I want to see characters that are as lost, frightened and confused as real people. I want to read a comic book where the creators are not so paralysed by the corporate homogeny machine that they cannot make brave moves or try new things with a stale genre. "
... pretty well sums up my attitudes on entertainment - I want them to take me to strange new places, even if they're unsettling, and shake my worldview, not coddle it with cliched shlock value.
That to me seems to be a lot of what WiR and we're kicking around here - the "Schlock value" of a lot of the treatments. It's not the voilence to women heroes - it's the cheap "Ooh... I can't figure out a better way to grab the reader in 30 pages, so I know! I'll have her get depowered and raped - yeah!" without ever thinking "Would I do this to a mainline hero I'm writing?" or "Is this true to the character?" [and that last is more key for me... is it something that should follow in the development of the character? If "yes", do it]
And if not... then why do it to this one? If ithe character's worth calling a "Hero", then the character is worth being treated as one, wther it's a male, female, or a Peach and Teal Hermaphodite from Eros. ;]
Anything less, and it's cheapening both the character and the creator... _________________ "I'd add a legitimate comment here, but that would mean reading everything, which I have no patience for." - Slynky
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I don't need natural insanity pills to assist me..I am already there.
